When Danellia Arechiga became a gestational surrogate, she felt strongly about having an unmedicated birth at a birth center. Even as her labor plan derailed into an induction, she pushed for few interventions and worked with her physiology, ultimately experiencing the elusive Fetal Ejection Reflex. She tells Adriana Lozada why doing so was important for her, the baby, and the intended parents.
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- Using a Foley Balloon Catheter for Induction of Labor: A Non-Drug Method to Help Dilate the Cervix, VeryWell Family
- Birth and the Fetus Ejection Reflex, Midwifery Today
- Surrogacy: Who decides to become a gestational carrier? Harvard Health Blog
- Surrogacy, Resolve
- Family Building through Gestational Surrogacy Committee Opinion, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
- Surrogacy is misunderstood and unfairly maligned. We need to change the narrative, The Washington Post
- Meet the Women Who Become Surrogates, New York Times
- Surrogacy reform is spreading in the rich world, The Economist
- For gay parents, first comes the baby — then comes the debt, NBC
Related Birthful episodes:
- Surrogate Birth Stories
- [Fertility & Birth] An IVF and Surrogacy Rollercoaster Birth Story
- Rethinking the Pushing Stage
- Pro Tips for Photographing Your Unique Birth Experience
- [Postpartum] Loving Your Body After Giving Birth
[Birth Story] How Harnessing Her Birth Hormones Allowed Her to Forgo an Induction
Adriana Lozada: Welcome to Birthful, Mighty Parent or Parent-To-Be. I’m Adriana Lozada, and we’ve got a birth story for you today as part of our Birth Beyond the Clinical Experience series.
My guest today is multidimensional mama, musician, healer, and birthworker Danellia Arechiga, who is here to share her birth experience as a gestational surrogate.
Danellia was planning to give birth at a birth center, but as she approached 41 weeks with no signs of labor in sight, she wasn’t sure she’d be able to have the unmedicated birth she hoped for, let alone experience the fetal ejection reflex. And toward the beginning of the story you’ll hear why she felt so strongly about birthing this way for this baby, for their intended parents, and for herself.
I find this story to be a great example of the resilience of the birthing body when the birthing person knows about the importance of supporting the physiological processes happening within their body, and then advocates for them even when experiencing interventions, and this is an episode that goes really hand in hand with our previous episode with Dr. Sarah Buckley on birthing hormones and oxytocin’s protagonist role in creating positive feedback loops to make labor efficient, as well as how the activating sensations and beneficial stressors of birth helps baby get ready for life in the outside world. So, if you haven’t listened to that episode yet, make sure you go back to it afterwards.
You’re listening to Birthful, here to inform your intuition.
Adriana: Welcome, Danellia. I am so happy to have you here on this show today to tell us your story. And before we get into that, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you identify?
Danellia Arechiga: Sure! Thank you for having me. I live here in Long Beach, California, which is Tongva and Acjachemen territory. I am a single mom. I have a daughter, and her birth actually led me into birth work. So I’ve been a birthworker for almost as long as she’s been alive.
And I am also an artist— I’m a musician, a writer, a songwriter. The name that I’ve kind of given myself the nickname is the “Multidimensional Mami” because I realized a few years ago that I didn’t want to just be confined to birthwork, that I could actually bring more of my gifts and my skills in other elements of my life to into my birthwork, and vice versa.
Adriana: And I think that’s a wonderful point of view to take into life, because we all have all these different labels, and all different hats that we wear, and especially as we become parents, right? We’ve got that big new label— of “parent,” of “mom,” of “dad,” whatever it is you want your kids to call you— and how that shifts to how you define yourself. So being able to integrate all of those is, oh, such a crucial part of being a parent.
Danellia: Absolutely. And I think just being a human, just allowing ourselves to really step into all of the roles we play and not being boxed into just one, which often happens when we’re parents. So I’m exploring that a lot right now.
Adriana: What motivated you to become a gestational carrier?
Danellia: So my sister (my older sister), she has been working in fertility for a long time, and she had asked me if I would be open to being a surrogate for a couple that she had been working with for quite some time. And at the time I was very interested because, well, even now, I mean, I only have one child. I don’t plan on having anymore. But I really, really loved being pregnant and I loved giving birth. But I just don’t want any more children of my own. And so it was, it was kind of an opportunity for them and for me, to experience pregnancy again, and then to be able to help this family complete themselves with this child that they’ve been longing for for so long.
Adriana: And so tell us broad strokes of how that process went of figuring out? Because you hadn’t done this before, it was your first time as well. So figuring out how to have those important conversations and determine who would be sort of taking the lead during what time?
Danellia: Yeah, I think that my experience as a birthworker definitely helped the family feel more comfortable letting me kind of make some of those recommendations. For example, I knew right away that if I was going to work with them, that I would wanna try for a natural birth, because I had a natural birth with my daughter.
And, it was just really important to me, especially because the actual pregnancy itself was so medicalized, right? Because there’s a lot of medicalization that needs to happen in order for me to get pregnant in this way. And so I really wanted it to be as natural as possible, and they were completely supportive of that.
They let me know that they trusted my experience and my suggestions, and that made me feel really comfortable moving forward with them. Additionally, I told them from the beginning that I wanted to possibly give birth at home or at a birth center. I wanted to avoid the hospital if possible. And also, because it was important to me that they were as much a part of it as possible, and I knew that they would get a little bit more involved at a birth center with the care of midwives.
Adriana: And so as things progress and you’re getting closer to that due date, what were their thoughts as things also got close? Were they showing any anxiety in terms of place of birth or in terms of the process? What were their concerns?
Daneilla: Yeah, I think we all experienced a lot of uncertainty and anxiety leading up to the birth because I did pass the 40 week due date. And we knew that we had a time limit with the birth center, meaning that if I didn’t give birth by 41 weeks and six days that I would have to be transferred to the hospital for an induction.
So there was a lot of anxiety. We were in communication that whole week. Just really exploring all of the options, and it was difficult.
Adriana: What was going through your mind and what were you doing, at that point when you were, you’re seeing this deadline of transfer to the hospital at 40 weeks, six days if you are not in labor by then.
Daneilla: Yeah, I was pulling out all the stops! I was really leaning on my community more than anything. I had a wonderful doula named Karissa Raya, who has been featured on this podcast as well. And I also had a good friend of mine, Panquetzani from [Indigemama], who really helped me with a lot of body work in the weeks leading up to the birth and also the evening before the scheduled induction.
She stayed up with me all night and just, we did rebozo techniques, we did herbal remedies. We did pretty much anything and everything we knew of to try to help the cervix at least get started so that the induction wouldn’t be so intense.
Adriana: Was that creating any contractions? Were you seeing any changes?
Danellia: I was. I was contracting pretty frequently, but they weren’t very strong, and so as we know, we really can’t force our bodies into being ready if they’re not. It’s like the saying, you know, “When ripe, they will fall.”
When the fruit is ripe on the tree, you don’t have to pull it, it’ll just fall to the ground, right? So I think it did help. Absolutely. I had to entertain the possibility that it might not completely put me into full on active labor.
Adriana: So then how did it all start? You’re past your “due date,” what’s going on?
Danellia: So when I passed the due date, the midwives were able to administer a Foley catheter to get me started so that when I went in for the induction the following day, I could hopefully come in with some progress already. And then that’s when Panquetzani and I had worked on the rebozo circuit and the herbal teas and things like that. And I was able to get from one centimeter when they put the Foley bulb into three centimeters when I showed up to the hospital, so it did make a difference.
Adriana: And wanna explain what a Foley catheter is because I was gonna say, you must have had some dilation if they were able to put it in, ‘cause you need to be at least one centimeter for it to be inserted. And then it’s a little balloon that gets pumped with water and mechanically expands the cervix with that pressure from the water inflating, and it continues creating that pressure until three centimeters, because then the balloon can’t go anymore. That’s as big as it gets, and then it falls out. So that’s what you experienced.
Danellia: Right, right. So they put it in, I did the circuit, and then it fell out on its own. And so that’s when I went to the birth center to be assessed. And they did say that I was three centimeters, but baby’s position wasn’t ideal. They thought that the baby might be asynclitic, and also the cervix was posterior. so then I went back home and tried a little bit longer to avoid the induction.
Adriana: What time are we talking about?
Danellia: This is like 3:00 a.m.
Adriana: And your deadline for induction is what time?
Danellia: It was the next morning— 7:00 a.m.
Adriana: So you’re like four hours away from having to go in?
Adriana: So middle of the night you’re doing all these things, they’re slowly making change. Then what happened?
Danellia: I went home and I intended to continue working on this circuit that I had been practicing, different things like squats, rebozo, you know, walking, knees up type, those types of movements. But I was really tired. I was really tired from all the movement, all the anxiety, all the pressure, the contractions that I was feeling. So I ended up taking a nap, and I ended up sleeping longer than I intended to. But honestly, I feel like it was needed, you know, it was necessary because my body needed to rest and I needed energy to go into the hospital. I needed to prepare myself.
Adriana: And I love a nap during early labor! It can be so restorative and sort of get you out of that thinking brain and let your body do the process.
Danellia: Absolutely. I needed that, for sure.
I think I just needed time to process what was about to happen, you know? So the majority of my morning, the next morning when I did have to go into the hospital, was spent moving really slowly and really cherishing every last minute that I had with my daughter before I had to go to the hospital. We just spent some time loving up on each other before that.
Adriana: And where are the intended parents in this process right now?
Danellia: So they were home and they were notified that I would be going into the hospital. So their plan was to meet me at the hospital when I got there.
Adriana: Were they gonna let both of them into the room?
Danellia: No, unfortunately, only one of them was allowed in, as well as my doula. The hospital’s policy was that only a doula and one additional support person could be with me, so the mom ended up coming with me to the hospital.
I was scheduled to be admitted at 9:00 a.m. and I believe we got there a little bit closer to 9:30 a.m. – 10:00 a.m. because I was showering. I was kind of dragging my feet a little, if I’m being honest. And so by the time I got checked in, I was actually officially checked around 11:00 a.m. and I was about four centimeters at that point.
It was getting more intense. I was starting to feel more excited, like, “Okay, we’re here. It is what it is. Let’s just do what we do best, right?” As birthworkers, what do we do? We turn that hospital room into a birth cave and we make it dark (if the client wants it, of course).
And I did. I wanted it to be dark. I wanted it to smell good. I wanted to have my music. And my doula was amazing. Karissa was amazing at creating that space for me. She kind of just recreated the cave that I had created in my room in the hospital, and I immediately felt a lot better. And I was like, “Okay, let’s do this.”
Adriana: So you made the space yours. Was your body ready to go?
Danellia: It was. It started to work. It started to move. The contractions got more intense and closer together. I was pretty much left alone for the majority of the day. Even though I was there for an induction, I wasn’t actually induced. The doctor and the nurses had spoken to me about needing Pitocin if I wasn’t progressing by a certain time.
I just kept asking for more time, and I think that being a birthworker definitely helped me in this situation because I felt very confident advocating for myself. But yeah, my body was working and before I knew it, I started feeling pressure, you know, and I started going to the bathroom a lot. And that’s usually a sign that things are moving along because we feel like we need a poop, but really it’s the pressure of the baby moving down. So that was exciting!
Adriana: I know that when people are giving birth, you’re going into altered states, you’re going deep into Laborland, and it gets to a point where you’re not really aware of time and space and how things are going. It’s all a really big blur as you focus inward and you’re talking to me about having, you know, outside-looking-in birthworker perspective. Were you able to do both of those?
Danellia: I still experience some moments of doubt, you know? Like, “Oh my gosh, this is gonna take forever. They’re gonna give me Pitocin.” But my body was telling me the opposite. My body was saying, “No, you’re fine. This is happening now.” I went from five centimeters to eight really quickly, like in the matter of an hour maybe.
And this was right around the time that the doctor was saying, “Okay, we’ve given you lots of time. You’re here for an induction, but you haven’t been induced. We’re gonna have to give you Pitocin soon.” And that’s when I was like, “Actually, you need to check me, because I feel like I’m gonna push!”
So I was able to access that higher consciousness that we tend to experience in labor, especially if it’s an undisturbed birth, right?
I remember at one point putting my headphones on— these headphones that I have on right now— and just going into my zone and really, like, speaking out the sounds that my body needed to allow myself to move through these different intense surges that I was having, and listening to a mantra in my ears that reminded me that I was safe, and that I was secure and that I was going to be okay.
So, it was really interesting having both of those perspectives, as the birthing person and then as an experienced doula, you know, knowing what was about to happen. It’s still so magical and so unique.
Adriana: So you’re deep in the zone. Things are intense. You’re eight centimeters, you are in the bathroom, and suddenly you get more pressure. Tell me about it.
Danellia: I always tell people, like, “When you give birth, that intensity, it’s indescribable… because after it’s over, it’s almost like you forget about it. It’s almost like you can’t verbalize it.”
But I do remember very distinctly feeling the baby moving down into my pelvis. I could actually feel her almost like scraping the insides of my pelvis. And as much as that does not sound comfortable, I mean, it’s not, but physiologically, I could feel it. And it was amazing to me because I don’t remember feeling that with my daughter’s birth. And it told me that this baby was coming soon, you know, with the contractions. I could actually feel her moving down.
And so, I told them, you know, “I feel like I’m pushing,” you know, “You might wanna check me.” And they were in the middle of a shift change, so they were kind of like, “Okay, okay. We’ll get to you in a little bit,” you know, “We’re updating our next staff members,” and my doula too was like, “You’re gonna wanna check her. Like, she’s…” I mean, I was grunting! I was, like, actively pushing, you know, with the fetal ejection reflex— as you know, you can’t really stop it. So it was just happening and it all happened so fast. The baby just kind of came out before the doctor even could make it into the room. And the new nurse that had just come on was kind of at a loss for what to do because it happened so fast.
Adriana: Let’s paint a picture, ‘cause I wanna know… So you are… Where are you in the room right now?
Danellia: So I had gone from the bathroom to the bed, and I was trying to tell them, like, “Come check me, ‘cause I need to push!”
Adriana: What position were you in?
Danellia: So I was actually on my back. They did end up checking me, but it took a little while and by the time they checked me, they were like, “Oh, you’re complete!” And I was like, “I know! I’ve been telling you I have to push.”
And so I was actually on my back flat, which I was not happy about, you know, but it, again, it happened so fast. It was hard to get into a position that felt better. And yeah, baby just kind of slipped right out, into one of the nurses’ arms.
Adriana: So the new nurse did get there; it wasn’t just you and your doula, Karissa.
Danellia: The previous nurse had just left the room. The new nurse was on. She had just called in some backup from the other nurses on the floor. So there were about three nurses in there with us, plus the intended mother and my doula. I… you know, I was saying, “I have to push! I have to push!”
Some of the nurses were like, “Okay, just breathe,” you know, “Don’t push yet. The doctor’s coming.” One of them kind of looked at me and was like, “If you have to push, just push. Don’t worry about it,” you know, like, “We’ll catch this baby.” I was like, “Thank you!” I know, you know? I know this baby’s gonna come out, whether you catch it or not, but I appreciate that reassurance. It wasn’t even like I had to push, I just had to release her.
Adriana: Did she do two pushes, one the head and one the rest of the body, or did she just full-on fly out?
Danellia: I think I pushed a little. Karissa looked and she was like, “Oh yeah, I see her head.” And then the next one she was out.
Adriana: So then, after the baby’s out, as a surrogate and an intended mother in the room, like, what happens? How does bonding happen?
Danellia: So Karissa actually facilitated the mom being more involved, because she was kind of standing on the sidelines and Karissa was like, “Come here! Come here,” you know “Your baby’s coming!” And I even told her, I said, “Take your sweater off, because as soon as she comes, we want you to… you know, her to go to you.”
And so she was kind of, like, right next to me, just watching it all unfold, and baby ended up coming onto my chest or actually onto my belly briefly while they just assessed her. And then they moved her over to the warmer, and then the mom went with her to the warmer and just kind of talked to her, and was there with her.
So, my doula and I were both trying to facilitate bonding right away in whatever way we could. But because, you know, the doctor wasn’t there, it was a little bit of a delay with getting baby right onto mom’s chest. So it took a little while, but as soon as, you know, mom was able to hold baby and then dad was able to come into the room— ‘cause he had been in the chapel, actually, he was in the chapel at the hospital.
And, it was really beautiful once they could all be together. And I was just so relieved. I just had such a feeling of relief. Like, “Oh!” That pressure had finally just subsided and finally she was here with her parents. It was beautiful.
Adriana: Yay! And had they seen a birth before?
Danellia: I believe she said she had seen one when she was in her college years, she had to observe a hospital. But she told me later, she’s like, “I’ve never seen anything like that, like a natural birth, like, just primal like that, you know, just baby comes shooting out!”
Dad has a background as a firefighter and a paramedic. And so he’s seen a lot of births, but, like, in very emergency situations. So, even entering the pregnancy and wanting to go natural and things like that, it was a little bit different for them because the experiences he had with birth were all very much emergencies.
Adriana: Right, which is probably why he was in the chapel!
Danellia: Right, right.
Adriana: Which is so hard for him!
Danellia: That makes sense.
Adriana: Right? Also, so hard for him! Like, “I can’t see what’s going on. I can only imagine it. Let me go find some peace however I can.”
Danellia: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I’m really glad he did that because I think it kept him busy, you know? And he was with us in his own way.
Adriana: For the mom, who was in the room as soon as the baby came out, what was her response?
Danellia: I think she was just in awe, you know, just in awe that this baby was finally here. Honestly, I haven’t had a chance to really sit down with them and really ask those questions. Like, what did… Emotionally, what did that feel like? I would love to actually sit with them and, and have that conversation. But from what they did tell me, she was just very grateful that, you know, I was able to give birth to their baby. And also that I was so committed to the natural birth. I don’t think they understood how committed I was, but I was trying to avoid that induction at all costs.
Adriana: Did she feel as committed as you? Or did… At any point, did she have any hesitation?
Danellia: She would ask me often, like, “Are you sure about this? Are you sure you don’t want medication?” And I’m like, “No, I think I’m okay.” For me, the need to have an unmedicated birth is more about limiting the amount of recovery as well.
I also wanted to be able to feel what it felt like to give birth. If I had some type of epidural or pain relief, I may not have felt that intense feeling of the baby moving into the pelvis. But that’s just me. I wanted to feel that. A lot of people are like, “That does not sound good. Give me the meds now.” And that’s totally fine, but that’s just my perspective. I think they were, they were really grateful and they were really amazed at my commitment to a non-medicated birth.
Adriana: And the baby came out screaming and pinked up and was doing great and fine?
Danellia: She was doing well. She did have some complications after birth. She had a small hole in her lungs that they discovered the second day of life. So she ended up having to go to the NICU for a while, and that kind of affected our postpartum plans because originally in an effort to facilitate bonding for the parents and also to stimulate breastmilk. We had planned to stay at a hotel after birth, so that I could do skin-to-skin with the baby to get breastmilk going, and then they could do skin-to-skin with her as well so they could bond with her. But because she ended up being admitted to the NICU for about a week, we didn’t get to do that.
And so I was pumping, I was trying really hard to make sure that I got some type of breastmilk so I could give it to them so that it could help her, especially because she was in the NICU and they were able to do that. They were able to give her the milk that I was pumping.
Adriana: So as part of the surrogacy, you guys included or negotiated that you would make sure your milk came in and provide breastmilk for them?
Adriana: For how long?
Danellia: The goal was three months, but my milk supply ended up dropping around the second or third week postpartum. And that just goes to show you how powerful hormones are, right? Because if that baby’s not with the birthing person, it’s really hard to facilitate breastmilk production.
And I was eating and drinking, all the things that help boost the hormones responsible for breastmilk. But I think because there was a disconnection, you know, as far as it not being my baby. It’s just very different. Actually I breastfed her a couple of times at the breast directly, and it was such an interesting experience because I did feel oxytocin, I did feel a let down, but it’s not quite the same because it’s not my baby. You know, I could only compare it to my birth with my daughter, and there’s… Something was a little different. So I’m actually really proud of my ability to pump as long as I did, because not having baby nearby to stimulate, that can be a little tricky.
Adriana: Right! And you didn’t have, you know, 24/ 7 access to skin-to-skin with this baby so that they could eat on demand 12 times, 10 times a day, however many times they wanted. So I can see that being a little trickier, yeah.
Danellia: Yeah, exactly. But I’m really happy with the way that we were able to make it work as long as we did.
Adriana: Being a surrogate and giving birth, what was the hardest part of it all for you?
Danellia: I think the hardest part towards the end was considering having to go to the hospital first and foremost because it was so far from what I wanted. I only agreed to be the surrogate because the intended parents were open to a homebirth or a birth center or working with midwives. So when that possibility came up, it was really, really hard for me to accept because it was just so far from what I wanted.
And I felt like my body just shut down because I was like, “Oh, I don’t wanna go there!” But it was a great experience, and I’m really glad that I got a chance to challenge myself to face that obstacle and still overcome it. But I can’t attribute that to, you know, just myself. It was really a community effort from all the support I received throughout my whole pregnancy and birth and postpartum.
One of the questions I get asked a lot about the surrogacy experience is if I experienced any type of grief or sadness when it comes to having given birth and then this baby no longer being with me, but being with her parents. And what I wanna say about that is that just like I said, there’s that disconnection. As much as I bonded with this baby in some way because I carried her for nine months, the bond that I created with her was always one of friendship. It was never one of ownership, of, like, “This is my baby.” It was always like, “This is a friend. I’m doing this as a favor to this family as a friend, and I’m carrying this baby for them as a friend, and so I’m going to return her to her parents.”
Because she was never mine to begin with, you know? So, I think when people think about surrogacy, they think like, “Isn’t that weird?” like, “Doesn’t it feel strange?” And I’m like, “No,” because it made sense to me from the beginning. If I had gone into this with some type of doubt, of like, “Oh, I don’t know, I might feel weird giving the baby back.”
Or a lot of people say, like, “giving up the baby.” And it’s like, “No, I didn’t give up a baby. This baby was never mine to begin with.” I was holding her, growing her temporarily for her parents because she was always theirs, you know?
Adriana: What was your favorite part of the whole experience?
Danellia: I loved pregnancy. I loved being pregnant. I felt so beautiful. I felt so good in my body. And with that pregnancy came so many revelations about myself, just like these layers of myself that I had been hiding and protecting. In some cases they just came floating out during the pregnancy because I feel like I was tapped into this spiritual element that I had been lacking. And then just the birth itself. The feeling of giving birth to this little human that her parents had prayed and longed for for so long. It was just magical. It was really beautiful.
Adriana: Would you do it again?
Danellia: I haven’t decided yet. I’m still very much recovering. I would love to be pregnant again, but realistically, my body is telling me to take it slow and just really be present. So we’ll see… to be determined.
Adriana: Thank you so very much for coming on today to share your story. This was really special.
Danellia: Thank you so much. I really appreciate the space.
That was the multidimensional Danellia Arechiga. I hope your main takeaway from our conversation is that flexibility and adaptability are key skills to hone during labor. Even though she didn’t want to, Danellia created space to process the changes that were happening to her birth plan, and this allowed her to go into the hospital from a place of readiness. And I also hope you felt the fetal ejection reflex is a powerful thing! If you want to connect with Danellia, you can learn more at danelliaarechiga.com
And if you want to connect with us, find us on Instagram @birthfulpodcast. Also, we love it when you let us know what your biggest takeaway from the episode is! A way to do that is to take a screenshot of this episode right now and post it to your stories telling us what resonated. Make sure to tag @birthfulpodcast so we can see it and amplify it.
You can find the in-depth show notes and transcript of this episode at birthful.com, where you can also learn more about my birth and postpartum preparation classes and download your free postpartum preparation plan.
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Birthful is created and produced by me, Adriana Lozada, with production assistance from Aysia Platte. This episode was produced in part by LWC Studios: Paulina Velasco, Jen Chien, Cedric Wilson, and Kojin Tashiro.
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Come back for more ways to inform your intuition.
Lozada, Adriana, host. “[Birth Story] How Harnessing Her Birth Hormones Allowed Her to Forgo an Induction.” Birthful, Lantigua Williams & Co., May 3, 2023. Birthful.com.
About Danellia “Dane Reál” Arechiga
Dane Reál (she/they) is a Queer, Brown, Unpartnered Parent, Traditional Birth Worker, Sexual Health Educator, Liberation Activist, Artist, and Musician. She takes great pleasure in helping people peel away the learned layers of sexual shame and connect to their creative, erotic energy through vocal liberation, embodiment, and mastery of self expression. Through the lenses of ancestral medicine, decolonized nonviolence, reproductive justice, and Indigenous wisdom, Dane integrates their own spiritual and energetic gifts to help clients remember and connect to their authentic selves.
As a musician, Dane has created the song Mother as an anthem gifted to those whose relationships with their mothers have not always been warm and loving. The song is her contribution to the intergenerational healing she has done within her own lineage and features the voices of her grandmother Lucy who passed in 2018 and her daughter as they share their journey through healing the mother wound that has been passed on for 4 generations. You can hear it on her YouTube channel.
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